Since it is wonky, why not just disable spell casting when characters are in dragon form

nvm appears to be inconsistent, yuan bo changed spells everytime he transformed

Ydok4 curious, Yuan Bo does not suffer the same fate when transforming as Miao Ying (storm dragon).

the reduce spell capacity is respected when yuan bo turn into the Jade dragon, it however is not respected when his sister Miao ying turns into the storm dragon.

I have not yet tested for the other dragon sibling (metal fire dude, zhao ming?)

@sarumanthecursed Not sure if I can change the border. I may be able to change the description but since I'm piggybacking off of the existing skills, I'm reluctant to overwrite the descriptions unless I have to.

That said, the skill trees have been organised so that the skills are generally following this order:
ie Wizard Level->Spell Attribute->Signature Spell->Level 1 Spells->Upgraded Wizard Level->Level 3 Spells.

There's some variation depending on the starting wizard level (eg Level 4 Wizards) but in general, the signature spells are always after the spell attribute passive.

If you're referring to multi-lore characters, they are custom skills and already list out which spells are signature in the skill description. Those skills are due for an overhaul since there are some improvements to effects UI in WH3 I should be able to leverage for clarity.

If possible can the signature spell in each lore, have a different border colour or mentioned in its description that it is the signature spell?

When deciding on skill points, it is simply hard to remember, sometimes which is the signature spell, especially with the amount of factions and lores in the game

@sarumanthecurse Done some more testing and it looks like the game isn't respecting the 'Can be copied' flag on the unit special abilities tables. I think we are unfortunately stuck with this for the timebeing.

On the plus side I did discover (and fix) some issues with out of date spell data impacting the lores used by the dragons.

@sarumanthecursed Thanks for the report. I'll take a look.

I vaguely recall there being a known issue with spells and transformed characters but can't find the source at the moment. Could be we're stuck with this for a while but I'll see what I can do.

mod fails to differentiate spell availability between storm dragon form and human form (she is suppossed to have less spells or maybe even none in dragon form).

otherwise there is little point in ever using the human form

@sarumanthecursed The signature spell is always the default spell that CA set for casters.

I don't think that there is an issue with signature spells being a consistent good first pick to max out. This is consistent with vanilla CA design where some skills across all lines are obvious early picks.

Perhaps then putting the signature spell in a separate block, perhaps infront of the wizard level.

As I honestly don’t know what the signature spell is sometimes, and do to it’s reliability there is no reason not to max it out before any of the other spells

@Yoshi 'More differentiated casters' is a tricky one. I haven't booted it up in game but suspect most of their skill changes won't be compatible.

@sarumanthecursed I'm pretty attached to the idea of signature spells. From a design point of view it is good to have something be consistent so you can rely on the spells. Especially since from a vanilla game point of view, all of CAs other design decisions assume you always have these spells.

@Zey @Yoshi @saruamanthecursed If some characters are already getting 15%-30% bonus intensity then sub 15 is probably still reasonable. I'm not planning to differentiate between legendary characters though. Casters already have unique skills and features that accentuate their power.

Miscast is a trickier problem. I can change the miscast chance BUT this only works if the spells can already miscast (ie only the upgraded versions of spells). I can make the base versions of spell miscast but this will decrease compatibility by a fair bit. This is primarily the reason why I haven't made the change previously.

This could be a good idea for a submod though.

I feel like the idea of a signature spell should just be removed, so that it’s fully Random,

I am guessing this wont work with "More Differentiated Casters"?

There also exist a feature in the game which is under used: silenced. This was added in patch 4.2 I believe and this could be used for some spell casters as a "dispell" mechanic maybe.

Yeah, ever since they separated, magic resistance and spell resistance spell resistance is almost entirely useless in campaign

On some wizards the last skill gives 15% spell mastery already(1.15x) so any spell mastery buffs for wizard levels could be in line with that.

Level 1: gives no extra spell mastery since its base line
Level 2: gives +2%
Level 3: 4%
Level 4: 8%
Level 5: 16%

Regarding my comment on spell resistance: they currently do not affect debuffs which kindof makes spell resistance worthless right now. Try casting some spell vs dwarfs. Many spells overkills anyway so 20% resistance sometimes is totally meaningless. By making it also affect debuffs its value would be better. It could be possible via scripting according to chat gpt. But I dont know much about modding but I am a programmer myself so I might read up on modding a bit and join the modding scene :))

I agree again with Zey. though personally I feel that all spells even regular cast, should have a miscast chance

And for the miscast an aditional 6% at lvl 1 and +2% every aditional level....

Again I based my thoughts on tabletop.

By default you used 2 dice for simple spells, and if I recall correctly you only got malfunction on double 1s.

Which makes it a 5.556% chance

But in terms of gameplay it would be simpler to put concrete numbers, and somewhere between 5% and 6%... Given my previous recommendations a 6 would be more convenient since it would make a level 4 sorcerer have an additional 12% chance of taking damage when casting a spell.

As I say, this would be increasing the chances that already exist in the vanilla game because with this mod, sorcerers, and especially legendary ones, are incredibly powerful since you have no way to counter them in a particularly efficient way.

Sorry for reposting. The last suggestion was about MR, not SI.

In relation to the SI, perhaps it would be an option to double the MR% you offer to your army.

Just like on the board, the sorcerer generated fewer dice to counter enemy magic.

Another recommendation would be, for outstanding sorcerers like Teclis or Kairos that only they give 15% MR and have 30% spell intensity

I agree with Zey’s suggestion. Would also help the AI be a bit stronger since the players can abuse spells so much.

@Yodk4 My idea would be. 2% level 1, 4% level 2, 6% level 3, 8% level 4 and 10% for level 4 legendary sorcerers. Let the % affect the Sorcerer's Army

@Yoshi @sarumanthecursed These interactions, if they aren't already behaving like this would be something that needs to change on an engine level. Practically I'm looking for suggestions like +/-X% spell intensity per wizard level.

Agree with yoshi (out of the scope of this mod) but spell resistance should also reduce spell intensity

@Ydok4 Would probably be pretty safe to add. Nothing too extreme.

On another note: I am annoyed over how spell resistance work in the game. Is it possible to make it affect debuffs?

@Yoshi I've been procrastinating about doing something to differentiate the individual wizard levels for years now haha. I originally wanted to do something with miscast chance but was worried about the AI blowing themselves up. Spell mastery has been discussed a few times so maybe I'll do something with that eventually.

Wow! This mod is amazing! Cant believe I just found out about this. Although it seems that wizard levels could also include spell mastery bonuses maybe? A spell from a slann or teclis should feel more impactful then from some lowly poor wizard!

@sarumanthecursed I may have spoken too soon. I had another look and believe I've fixed it. Or at least the Fay Enchantress looked correct. Let me know if it works now.

@sarumanthecursed Unfortunately I haven't figured out why the spells are on different wheels yet.

Agree that the signature spell slot is usually the best first choice. Short of removing the ability to buff it, I'm not sure if there is anything I can do to change this unless I make it mandatory to level it up to 3 before the others unlock.

I use the Tasteful level up mod so I get two skill points every second level which gives me some more options for how I spend these skills. Depending on the lore, I'll invest early in some of the weaker spells so they're more appealing if the characters end up receiving them.

since the signature spell is guaranteed, there is not much point really in not fully levelling it over the other spells slots.

Do the spells all appear on the same wheel now? Or do we still have to use the arrow to go between lores

@mmi.05 I'm still not adding in the Kroak spells. If someone reskins Fiery Invocation is the correct spell but CA really needs to change the Phoenix to a Coatl or something.

I don't understanding what you mean by Yuan Bo, are you saying he should have Yin?

Amazing Wizard Levels - Refining the tree of magical skills Yan bo has a yin school, not yang you have

slans can only be given 2 spells from the kroak school, and a level 3 spell can only be left with kroak, the phoenix does not fit into the lizards in any way

@mmi.05 Definitely not changing the Kroak spells. They're way too strong and should be unique to Kroak. As far as I'm aware there's no precedence for this on table top either.

Yuan Bo's lores have been chosen based on his elemental lore association (which last time I checked was heavens) and one of the yin/yang lores. IIRC this I chose yang over yin because he had more yang spells by default. This is the pattern I intend to follow for all the dragon children.

Yuan Bo should also have access to the Yang schools and the school of light, since he is a great sorcerer by lore

give the Slans and mazdamundi the opportunity to learn the kroak school, or at least transfer the kroak spells to the schools of higher magic instead of the phoenix of the elves, otherwise it's not right that the slans cast the phoenix

Updated for 6.0.
Most of the patches are still working fine.
When Unwashed Masses and Wez Speshul is updated they will need an update.

@Zigg Price Correct.

So this would be compatible with other mods that add more skills, as long as it isn't messing directly with the spell list?

@Azrubêl You are correct. The mod has her as a level 4 wizard but the levels were incorrectly specified in the table in the forum. I've fixed this now.

Shouldn't Morathi be a level 4 Wizard rather than maxing out at 3, going by tabletop?

Oh yes it’s that! Such a pain to have to switch

@sarumanthecursed I think I know why. You need to use the arrows next to the spells to switch between the different lores. I'm not actually sure when this changed, I know Mannfred used to be like this but it changed over time. I might take a look at this and see if I can get them back onto the one panel, but spells should be all functional.

@sarumanthecursed I haven't experienced this issue with community bug fix myself so I had a look inside their packfile. There doesn't appear to be anything that touches the fay enchantress directly.

There could be another mod that interferes with the community bug fix mod that causes a script break. I know the 'Lost & Found Chaos: Sigvald, Champion of Slaanesh' mod used to cause a similar issue. It still might but I stopped using it after I found the conflict.

Not compatible with The community bug fix mod.

Character gets sloted into a random fixed lore with random number of spells.

Fay would have 2 spells, 4 the next battle then 3. Always of the same lore but different lores each battle. Essentially jumbled the mod

Removed CBF and mod worked as intended

@sarumanthecursed I haven't tested it with Duke's damned nations but as long as it doesn't touch the same skill nodes, it should work.

Is this compatible with Duke’s damned nations?

epic mod dude!

was hoping to see this!

@Eni I considered this earlier but after the Shadows of Change update I'm probably not going to bother due to future DLC inevitably adding these characters.