My opinion after playing the demo :: Valfaris General Discussions

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Buntkreuz 28 Apr, 2019 @ 4:30pm

My opinion after playing the demo

Pro:
Nice art
solid music
interesting setting
2D Doom Style

Contra:
the whole 8 degrees directional aiming and bad enemy placing

To ellaborate on the contra point:
The problem here is, the game doesnt play well with the 8 directional aim system.
This system was bad back then but it was all we had. Since then gaming evolved and for the better. Holding onto it is like holding onto all the negative things in other genres.
Play Warcraft 1 only once and then Warcraft 2, then 3 and you realize instantly that there were limitations because either for technical reasons or because they didnt know better.
This aiming is one of that.
And sadly it could work, but doesnt here.
What frustrates me in this game too fast, is the simple fact that enemies hitboxes are simply all the time out of my angle. So the enemy is above me and to the right, so i aim diagonally up to the right, shoot and miss. Because i am not standing a tiny bit more to the left, or right, it goes under the enemies feet, or above its head.
At first, this was occasionally dumb. Like at the part where i have to get the energy core and stood in the middle, while all stand slightly above or below me.
But it became instantly a gigantic problem with the Junk Gargoyle which is a floating enemy that goes up and down while also having a platform that goes up and down.
And so suddenly aiming diagonally means i miss all shots because i am not perfectly positioned.
Lets get this straight.
This movement works ok-ish in other run and guns. But here it doesnt.
It seems like the level design, the enemy placement and the enemy movement patterns arent made to have this type of movement function.
And i kind of quitted at that point wishing this game would come rather with free aiming, meaning mouse aim or having many more degree levels to aim, not only 8. Probably about 16 degrees would work at least better. But honestly i think a fluid aiming control would be the best.
The thing is this. Other games at least built everything else around that type of movement design.
Broforce only allows aiming in 2 directions (just horizontal), but the games environment, enemies and everything else is built around that, so it works.
Turrican worked fine, but its environment and enemy movement was static and designed so it complemented the movement controls.

Sadly i feel like Valfaris is just built with an idea of style, but the aiming doesnt look like it was implemented for a reason.
Its the very fact that it doesnt seem to work in combination with its environment and enemies very well.
The game doesnt play as if it was designed around that type of aiming, which means its rather clunky at best.

As of now, i have to give it a pass. I wouldnt. The style is cool, difficulty seems fine, its interesting.
But with that type of controls, i rather wont. If i would at least see a proper reason for it to be this way, but it seems its just like that because "retro".
Wasnt Slain also suffering from similar problems?
I remember many seemed to love the style and music, while disliking the design and controls.
Hoped to see a vast improvement.

Good luck with the game though and to all the others much fun.

Last edited by Buntkreuz; 10 Jun, 2019 @ 3:58pm

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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments

Lithium 10 Jun, 2019 @ 12:04pm

I agree.

Neros 10 Jun, 2019 @ 3:53pm

I totally agree too.

Visi

10 Jun, 2019 @ 6:29pm

I actually disagree. I thought it worked fine and had fun with the demo.

helldraco 10 Jun, 2019 @ 10:57pm

Sadly, I agree.

The Edge

12 Jun, 2019 @ 11:37pm

Exactly my thoughts.

McMurphy

13 Jun, 2019 @ 1:06am

so same as slain looks cool, with bad leveldesing and gameplay

Buntkreuz 13 Jun, 2019 @ 8:01am

Originally posted by Pazuzu:
so same as slain looks cool, with bad leveldesing and gameplay

no to be precise, gameplay and leveldesign seem cool and ok. Its just the control scheme and control design that feels not in line with anything else.
Its like they make a great package with good design, great look, music etc, but then the controls seem as if made for a different game with a different level design.
It feels slapped on for the sake of being retro but doesnt work properly in context of all the games other features.
I have played enough games like this and none of them felt like this. They design and control design were ever complementary.
But here it feels like both parts were developed by two different studios.
Thats the problem i have with it.

Rezilia 13 Jun, 2019 @ 8:33pm

If they add the option to aim based on mouse movement, that would be nice, just know that in a game like this that requires very fast input, you'll probably oversteer your aim a lot on mouse mode, which certainly isn't for everyone - so you might actually find yourself preferring 8D mode again later on.

WhyNotZoidberg 14 Jun, 2019 @ 3:00am

Hogswash. The game does a good job of what it sets out to do. Played through the demo and never had a problem with the directional aiming. Customisable controls do the rest.

Crying over aiming seems like you didn't really realise you are getting a retro style arcade shooter much like Contra. I feel it is pretty much that at its core, and the presentation pretty much tells you that. This game is meant to be played with a controller, so the entire "mouse aim" issue is a completely mute and silly point, at best.

Rezilia 14 Jun, 2019 @ 3:13am

Heeey now, some people just prefer mouse over keys for aiming. I'm just experienced enough in those oldschool flash games like the Stick ones to know that 360 mouse aiming in 2D is very sensitive, so some people may feel it's too loose, just like others feel that 8D is too tight.

#10

Grog-Sothoth has Valfaris

14 Jun, 2019 @ 10:34am

This is the standard of all good metroidvania games. the controls are completely fine. Big disagree

#11

Michel Baie has Valfaris

14 Jun, 2019 @ 12:43pm

Big disagree here too.
Having the 8D aiming is perfect for this game.

#12

Buntkreuz 14 Jun, 2019 @ 2:12pm

Originally posted by WhyNotZoidberg:
Hogswash. The game does a good job of what it sets out to do. Played through the demo and never had a problem with the directional aiming. Customisable controls do the rest.

Crying over aiming seems like you didn't really realise you are getting a retro style arcade shooter much like Contra. I feel it is pretty much that at its core, and the presentation pretty much tells you that. This game is meant to be played with a controller, so the entire "mouse aim" issue is a completely mute and silly point, at best.

I played through Contra and i played a lot of Turrican and other games like this. Somehow all the others feel perfect whereas this game doesnt. Maybe because of the named reasons. Otherwise i wouldnt have started this thread.
Btw i played the game with a controller. I further recommend to properly read, you seem to address things i never said and twist them around.

I wouldnt mind controller aim, like at all, but this game does a poor job of controller 8D aiming. Which is why i recommended to think about more directions than 8. Like 16.

What seems to go over some people's heads here is this: You are targetting the "controls" as an issue, but it could simply be that the problem lays elsewhere. For example on the enemy placement or the level design.
The bad control-scheme might simply not be complementing the rest of the games design.
Then the question is, does the controls need some tweaking or the rest of the game.
Which is where i say that refining the controls to become smoother and more precise might be a better idea than reworking the entire gamedesign.

But hey, maybe i am just wrong. Maybe its a "silly point at best", to put it in your words. Because the first game totally didnt get teared to shreds by reviews for its horrific controls, leveldesign and balance, which then caused a complete rerelease.
And while somehow the other 2D Run and Gun Games i play feel good and this doesnt, it must be me and not the game.
Probably the game just starts and suddenly i lose my ability to play 2D RnG Games.
Or...i have a point you just dont realize.
Theres no need at all for anyone to agree or disagree on it. The developer asked directly for feedback on the games demo. This thread was my feedback on it.
Cool game, doesnt work well with the control scheme in comparison with the games design.
Disagree and have a different viewpoint? Make your own thread to give feedback.

Last edited by Buntkreuz; 14 Jun, 2019 @ 2:17pm

#13

Michel Baie has Valfaris

14 Jun, 2019 @ 3:25pm

Originally posted by King of Thorns:
What seems to go over some people's heads here is this: You are targetting the "controls" as an issue, but it could simply be that the problem lays elsewhere. For example on the enemy placement or the level design.

Originally posted by King of Thorns:
What frustrates me in this game too fast, is the simple fact that enemies hitboxes are simply all the time out of my angle. So the enemy is above me and to the right, so i aim diagonally up to the right, shoot and miss. Because i am not standing a tiny bit more to the left, or right, it goes under the enemies feet, or above its head.
At first, this was occasionally dumb. Like at the part where i have to get the energy core and stood in the middle, while all stand slightly above or below me.
But it became instantly a gigantic problem with the Junk Gargoyle which is a floating enemy that goes up and down while also having a platform that goes up and down.
And so suddenly aiming diagonally means i miss all shots because i am not perfectly positioned.

You're... playing it wrong.
And I would argue maybe the game doesn't do the best job on teaching how to play it right - namely, use that sword. It kills most things really quickly, 1st phase gargoyle boss included.
It also have a huge hitbox.

Guns are still really useful, but you gotta use the right weapon in the right situation.

As for the energy core part, it's better, faster and way easier to move around. Standing in the middle will just get you killed.

Last edited by Michel Baie; 14 Jun, 2019 @ 3:37pm

#14

Buntkreuz 14 Jun, 2019 @ 5:06pm

I did actually try that, in the end it would just be a workaround on something that is just not well done.
I played through it several times and all the time the controls seemed off to what i played.
And if a game has to be played in a certain way to even work properly (being streamlined) its not a good game (or a its a puzzle/rythm game).
Im sorry but if the conclusion to a game is "you are playing it wrong", its a bad game overall.
If the control scheme stays like that (and it will), i will give it a pass.
No problem because i have yet not finished a few other run and gun platformers.
But its sad because the style is rad.

Last edited by Buntkreuz; 14 Jun, 2019 @ 5:09pm

#15

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Valfaris > General Discussions > Topic Details

Date Posted: 28 Apr, 2019 @ 4:30pm

Posts: 30