Total War: SHOGUN 2

Total War: SHOGUN 2

Statistiche:
Vassals Don't Seem Worth It. Advice?
First campaign, no vassals. Went decently well and finished.

Second campaign, finished but HOLY MOLY was I annoyed by these stupid vassals betraying me. Given in mind, I didn't grab a vassal until after realm divide had happened so I thought I was safe but no, one-by-one it was betrayal. I had to backtrack a few squads and then blitz down a few more lands to win.

For what reason should I have a vassal if they're just going to stab me in the back no matter where in the game I'm at? The last 2-3 pieces of land you need?

Thoughts or advice are welcome.
Messaggio originale di BastardSword:
First of all, any vassals you make before you become shogun will be hit with the realm divide diplomacy penalty once realm divide starts. If you wait until after you become shogun to make vassals, then they get a much milder penalty against you, and there's still a chance that they will eventually turn on you.

Personally I do not think that vassals are ever worth it at all. Before realm divide there's always a decent chance that they will turn on you, and if they don't then there's a good chance that they'll take a bunch of land which triggers realm divide way earlier than you want it to, because their land counts as your land.

Yes you get a small money payment from the vassal and a captive trade partner but it's not worth it when the vassal can completely upend your campaign at any time.

The only time I will ever make a vassal is if I am at war with clan A, and have defeated their last army, and clan B has just declared war on me. I make clan A my vassal so they at least stay off my back for a while, and then I go deal with clan B. But I do this knowing that clan A will eventually turn on me or get taken over by another clan.

But usually I will just make peace with clan A and not make them my vassal, because clan A is so weak that they'll probably be taken over by another clan.

Once you are shogun then it's safer to make vassals but as I said there is still a good chance that they will turn on you. I would rather control their land and not have to worry about being backstabbed when I need to deal with the other clans on the map. Once I am shogun I have plenty of money so I don't need payments from vassals or trade with them. Someone will probably come in here and say that you can just pay your vassals massive amounts of money after realm divide to keep them happy with you so you can trade with them but that is surely not worth it.
< >
Visualizzazione di 1-10 commenti su 10
its best to only have 1 vassal usually one that pushes the map east or west... make sure you vassal with diplomacy to get better -stats...
L'autore della discussione ha indicato che questo messaggio risponde alla discussione originale.
First of all, any vassals you make before you become shogun will be hit with the realm divide diplomacy penalty once realm divide starts. If you wait until after you become shogun to make vassals, then they get a much milder penalty against you, and there's still a chance that they will eventually turn on you.

Personally I do not think that vassals are ever worth it at all. Before realm divide there's always a decent chance that they will turn on you, and if they don't then there's a good chance that they'll take a bunch of land which triggers realm divide way earlier than you want it to, because their land counts as your land.

Yes you get a small money payment from the vassal and a captive trade partner but it's not worth it when the vassal can completely upend your campaign at any time.

The only time I will ever make a vassal is if I am at war with clan A, and have defeated their last army, and clan B has just declared war on me. I make clan A my vassal so they at least stay off my back for a while, and then I go deal with clan B. But I do this knowing that clan A will eventually turn on me or get taken over by another clan.

But usually I will just make peace with clan A and not make them my vassal, because clan A is so weak that they'll probably be taken over by another clan.

Once you are shogun then it's safer to make vassals but as I said there is still a good chance that they will turn on you. I would rather control their land and not have to worry about being backstabbed when I need to deal with the other clans on the map. Once I am shogun I have plenty of money so I don't need payments from vassals or trade with them. Someone will probably come in here and say that you can just pay your vassals massive amounts of money after realm divide to keep them happy with you so you can trade with them but that is surely not worth it.
So to sum up yes I would say vassals are not worth the bother. The diplomacy system is very basic but also very cut-throat in Shogun 2 and the vassal system reflects this. In later total war games it's a lot easier to keep vassals, and they aren't guaranteed to turn on you after a certain point.
Vassals are similar to alliances. Mostly not useful, unless you have a very specific (often counter-intuitive) reason to go for one. I mostly make vassals to boost my honour in a location where they hopefully die asap.
We've hashed this before, rather than re-type this I'll just leave a link to one of the last times I responded on this: https://gtm.you1.cn/app/34330/discussions/0/1694917906668829014/
i usually make collection of vassals, and when i have too many i kill the surplus.
They're not worth it economically, but they help delay realm divide and give you honor. Honor is a precious resource.
Messaggio originale di captainducko:
They're not worth it economically, but they help delay realm divide and give you honor. Honor is a precious resource.

Honor is nice but every time a vassal takes a new province it pushes you closer to realm divide. Often they will take advantage of your strength and go out and take over a bunch of provinces very quickly and then trigger realm divide and then they declare war on you along with everyone else.
Messaggio originale di MFD Suraj:
i usually make collection of vassals, and when i have too many i kill the surplus.

Now everyone hates you because you turned on your vassal, and you now have less honor which also makes everyone hate you more. Oops.
Messaggio originale di BastardSword:
Messaggio originale di captainducko:
They're not worth it economically, but they help delay realm divide and give you honor. Honor is a precious resource.

Honor is nice but every time a vassal takes a new province it pushes you closer to realm divide. Often they will take advantage of your strength and go out and take over a bunch of provinces very quickly and then trigger realm divide and then they declare war on you along with everyone else.

I could have sworn realm divide is when you directly control 22 provinces. Vassals contribute to RD? What actually triggers RD on domination?
< >
Visualizzazione di 1-10 commenti su 10
Per pagina: 1530 50