Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 4:04am
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Options to Delete, Hide, Downgrade Badges/Levels
UPDATE: expanded OP from only deletion to other essential options, added an introductory explanation and additional popular counter-arguments, cleared up redundant wording, reworked already written points to be more consistent and concise for ease of reading.
Yes, it’s even bigger now.

Important: if you’re against these requests, I answer popular misconceptions and counter-arguments further down the post,
please read before arguing.

Introduction and basic ideas.
Greetings. If the development team actually reads it, I congratulate you on taking a more responsible stance as of recent by starting to expand privacy options. I wish you the creative freedom and to be strong enough to be responsible with it. Let’s hope it’s only the beginning. Stop punishing people for actively using the features you introduced, finish their development, so we can finally have choices.

The reason I’m here is because Steam support can’t help me with a seemingly simple enough request of deleting some of the badges I crafted and don’t want to have anymore. Now, I’m sure there are technical limitations in the current system, as it’s often the case. However, this flawed system leads us to all sorts of legit customization requests and reasons why they should be worked on and implemented.

What people want are quite basic, vital privacy and customization options: delete, hide certain crafted badges or choose a previous badge level, a privacy option to hide profile level. We want to be able to delete any badge we crafted by action (meaning game and event badges), hide any badge we wish, and choose which level to showcase from previously crafted levels. The coolest way to do the latter is choosing a certain previous level in the main badges page and choosing which level to put in the badges showcase at the same time. Imagine being able to showcase all 5 levels of the same badge. How cool would that be?

Now let’s go to reasons. First of all, it’s a purchase, no matter how you look at it. We pay money for cards to buy a desired badge. This already comes with expected common options associated with making a purchase. Which comes down to: if we want to get rid of a purchase, we should be able to. If we want to showcase only certain purchases to our friends or hide them all without hiding the whole profile, we should be able to do so as well.

Secondly, if it’s not obvious enough, we’re talking about personal profiles here – they make up our public gaming image, our gaming avatars. One of the major points in having a personal, customizable profile with different showcases is to pick and choose what we want to put on display, what we prefer to keep to ourselves, and what is no longer a desired part of a profile at all. In other words, deep customization and privacy options are of utmost importance in any profiles system, with a natural demand of them being able to be tailored down to the last bit of information. This includes badges and levels. They may not be personal information, but they’re still information, as well as decoration.

As you see, there are a lot of reasons to implement more control over crafted badges and levels with meaningful choices. Among them are: flexible privacy options, information customization, freedom of decoration, customer satisfaction, more interest in using the badges system overall.

As the support suggests, posting about this in the ideas section of discussions is the only way for their development team to take notice that it needs to be done. So if you want more customization for badges to happen, consider posting about this yourself.

Social networks analogy.
Social networks like Facebook and Instagram. Pretty much what Steam resembles with many of its features. Now, you may argue it's not the same because people use them differently, but it’s not the case as many people use Steam profiles to express themselves and socially connect. However, the point is, with all these things people often do something because they don't know better yet, eventually changing their choices. People grow older, they mature, tastes and preferences change over the years, as do their consumer habits and internet habits. Now imagine if you couldn't delete or hide any photos or posts from Facebook/Instagram, or couldn't change your information. That's exactly what it feels like to people who want to delete or hide some badges/levels and cannot do so.

It's about the freedom of choice, it's about having vital options as a paying customer and a user. Currently, it's a one-way street, a choice we make doesn't work both ways. If we choose to have a badge, it's like a commitment for life. If I buy something in a store, no one then forces me to keep it for life and showcase to people. It's not user-friendly and anti-consumer.

I know a thing or two about studies on customer psychology, so I can assure you this is hurting both customer experience and profits in a long run. Not a good look for a respectable company either. If a feature is offered, it’s the major responsibility to provide people with all essential choices they might need to make.

Popular misconceptions and counter-arguments:

1. Why would you want to hide/delete badges/levels?
Everyone have their own reasons. Why someone’s reason should be solid for anyone else? A sun goddess could whisper into their ear that this is the way to go and it still wouldn’t change a fact that these are basic, vital options everyone should have in any kind of personal profiles system. The point here is why everyone should have such options, not why someone in particular might want to use them.

2. Hide – yes, delete – no.
Although, I fully support an advanced hide option for badges like we have for games, which masquerades itself as a deletion, as a customer and an owner of my personal profile I believe in my right to be able to delete any information I put there myself by my actions. If I willingly or unknowingly participated in an event which awarded me with a badge or crafted a badge with trading cards, I should be reserved a right to withdraw my consent to have these badges. If something is a choice, it should work both ways, not as a commitment for life. Steam needs to respect a freedom of choice when it comes to personal profiles if they want their customization system to be taken seriously.

3. Not many people want it.
Until the entire userbase will participate in a poll questioning who wants to delete, hide, or downgrade their badges to a certain level, you can't say how many want this because you don't have any statistical data to back it up. The majority of users haven't asked for a lot of things: like a new Steam Points Shop with all kinds of animated stuff, a new library interface, a new chat functionality, or the badges themselves in the first place. Yet here we are, with lots of people enjoying new customization options they knew nothing about before that. Besides, these requests have been around for years, ever since badges were implemented, and new people still keep coming to express them when they see a thread like this.

4. Most people aren’t complaining about it, so it’s alright.
The reason most people aren't complaining is because most people can't be bothered to go out of their way to complain about something publicly, unless it's a really big problem for them, directly affecting their enjoyment. Naturally, most people aren't gonna have a big problem if they can't customize some part of their profile. Not everyone is into constant heavy customizaton of a profile. Doesn't mean they won't possibly enjoy a new option when it's presented to them. Don't presume what people might enjoy or what choice will they make. Everyone makes different choices at different points in time, you can't predict it. People aren't stones, they evolve. A competent development team should be concerned with how developed and innovative a feature is, if it has all possible options and quality of life people might want to use, not with how many are already vocal about those absent options.

5. Nobody cares how your profile looks, so no need for this.
First and foremost, people want to do this for their own satisfaction and a peace of mind. If a profile owner cares, that’s already someone and enough. Secondly, of course some are concerned with what image they project to others with their profile. You don’t go outside in clothes you don’t like expecting people to like you. Look up the comment #810 in this thread for a well put, fun analogy of this.

6. Steam wants to encourage to use badges, not to delete them.
Encouragement works in different ways. If a feature is underdeveloped, then at some point it becomes discouraging to keep using it. The more options people have, the more they're encouraged to use a feature and engaged with it. Otherwise, Valve wouldn't have added extended showcases and other stuff from the points shop. For instance, I would be crafting many more badges all the time if I was able to delete the ones that no longer satisfy my taste. As it is now, I lost motivation to keep looking for more interesting badges and themes to implement in my collection as long as I can’t change what’s already crafted.

7. People will regret deleting and will drown the support.
We already have the ability to delete games or whole accounts with adequate safety measures in place and a grace period. Yes, games can be restored, but accounts cannot. What would stop someone from regretting a deleted account and bothering the support from a new account? You can’t fail-safe against a human factor of all sorts of users, but if all the needed safety measures present, then there’s no excuse to not have basic options like this for any information on an account.

8. Malicious deletions from hijackers, friends, or relatives.
We have enough of security steps anyone could ask for: a confirmation through the mobile app, a confirmation e-mail, a grace period up to 30 days before a deletion. If it’s really a serious concern, all security steps could be required at once. If all the security already in place is not enough, then the same argument can be made against the deletion of a whole account.

9. Steam badges and levels are needed for trades or friend requests.
Currently when people don’t want strangers to know this information, they will resort to putting a whole profile on private. Some of them would be comfortable leaving their profile partially public if they could fully control privacy of each part. Those who want to use this information for reassurance of trades or friend requests, will do so either way. It’s unfortunate that people can’t hide a profile level alone, or certain badges, or even reduce said level by deleting badges, thus resorting to a fully private profile. When it comes to essential badges like Years of Service and Games Collector, we should be able to hide them, since they can’t be deleted for the obvious reason of being an integral part of profiles. Maybe some people just don’t like how they look or want this information to be private.

10. Some people might expect a refund/compensation.
Well, people don’t expect a refund when they delete games or delete their whole accounts – both options already available to us with easy measures for safety. Personally, I don't care about a refund. It’s already a waste to me if I can’t choose what to do with something I paid money for. It would be a fair deal if I’ll actually have choices of what to do with badges. I paid money for something, it was fun, now I want to get rid of it when it’s no longer fun, instead of being punished for actively engaging with a feature.

Of course, there’s always ways to make the experience even more fun by making the system more creative and meaningful. For instance, make deletion of badges in a form of salvaging them into whatever Steam developers will see fit: gems, points, cards, etc. Although, we already get a value in a form of game related items for crafting them in the first place, so the value for salvaging could be symbolic if at all.

11. Reducing Steam profile levels is impossible or wrong.
Firstly, it’s not impossible as it’s been tested by lowering the experience of Games Collector badge through deletion of games. It might require additional coding, but it’s not impossible. Reducing the leveling experience, thus lowering a profile level is what some people want to achieve by deleting badges, along with cleaning up badges, me included. Nothing wrong about this, it will only look consistent this way if deleted badges will take the associated experience with them. It might look weird if hidden badges will do the same, but it could be presented as a choice for a user. More coding, I know, but hey, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing right.

12. Difficult for developers, too much work, could cause problems.
They developed a lot of difficult features nobody asked for and any of which could cause problems. It's almost as if it's their job perfecting the experience of using Steam while making sure Steam client works with all the new features. This is customer relations we're talking about. Not providing your customers with all possible basic options is detrimental to any business. Steam development team knows this. They also know underdeveloped features are not very engaging, thus aren’t used much and don’t help with customer satisfaction. Mind you, they refuse to address and fix the issue via a support ticket, otherwise I wouldn't have a problem with the absence of an implemented option.

13. Why crafting at all if you want to delete badges?
It's in human nature to regret our past choices, change our tastes and preferences as we mature and form our personalities. Profile pages of any sort serve as public images. Much like with anything else in life, for many people it takes trial and error to find an image which reflects their personality the best or is comfortable for their experience of using a social network like Steam. I liked something and tried what it’s like to have it. Then I grew older and changed my tastes. Doesn’t mean I don’t want to craft new badges, I just don’t want to have some of the old ones anymore. Some people realized they don’t like badges at all and want a totally minimalistic profile. Nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is the absence of choice.

Conclusion.
We all have different personalities, different tastes and views, different consumer habits, different learning curves, different needs from live services. What we all do have in common is the need to have options according to all of the above. Don't discard a need for some options just because it's not something that you might have a use of. If we’ll pick and choose what essential options to allow, next time it could be options you need and choices that you want to make which are overlooked. Some folks thought it's insane to want to delete games and should not be allowed, yet many people enjoy this new choice they have.
Last edited by Greyarty; 2 Feb, 2021 @ 7:55am
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Showing 1-15 of 1,915 comments
AmsterdamHeavy 10 May, 2019 @ 4:47am 
I cant get past the "regret of crafting a badge".

Like, WHAT?

Also, willing to bet a nickle that "deleting" a badge would do nothing more than hide it from view. "Deleting", based on information from various sources will just 'hide' the bade, no stats will be impacting by this "deleting".
Last edited by AmsterdamHeavy; 10 May, 2019 @ 4:49am
WHOLF ⚡ 10 May, 2019 @ 5:04am 
The longest thread i've ever seen.
But why would you delete badges? ;-;
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 5:11am 
Originally posted by AmsterdamHeavy:
I cant get past the "regret of crafting a badge".

Like, WHAT?

Also, willing to bet a nickle that "deleting" a badge would do nothing more than hide it from view. "Deleting", based on information from various sources will just 'hide' the bade, no stats will be impacting by this "deleting".

Maybe you should read past this part to see the detailed explanation why someone might regret it. But here's a short answer: people don't want to associate themselves with things they no longer like or approve, which includes having them and showcasing them to other people.

Steam can make deletable anything they want as long as they want. If you, as a customer, want to be powerless and not in control of your purchases, it's your personal choice.
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 5:16am 
Originally posted by S h a d i X:
The longest thread i've ever seen.
But why would you delete badges? ;-;

Because I don't like them anymore, most of them are too cartoonish/childish/meaningless to my taste nowadays. I don't want to associate the public image of my gaming profile with them. It's my money spent on crafting them, so it should be up to me what to do with my purchase. The thread is long for this exact reason - I included every possible counter-argument and question I saw in other similar threads.
Q09066930 10 May, 2019 @ 5:18am 
Agree. There must be an option to hide it completely. Deleting isn't an option because it will create a loop for crafting the same badge with expensive loot over and over again but hiding is an easy way to make it disappear.
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 5:28am 
Originally posted by Q0906+6930:
Agree. There must be an option to hide it completely. Deleting isn't an option because it will create a loop for crafting the same badge with expensive loot over and over again but hiding is an easy way to make it disappear.

First of all, it will lead to this loot becoming cheaper as prices will go down because of many people selling it, which will defeat the whole purpose of abusing it. Secondly, Valve can easily implement a restriction to loot drops from badges crafted for the second time - if you craft a badge you already crafted in the past or in the past X ammount of days, you recieve no loot. Another possible restriction is to make it not marketable and non-tradable for X days after you recieved it from crafting. Nothing wrong or hard with any of those implementations. Now, restricting people's choice with their purchases is wrong and anti-consumer.
Last edited by Greyarty; 10 May, 2019 @ 5:29am
Q09066930 10 May, 2019 @ 5:36am 
Originally posted by Greyarchy:
First of all, it will lead to this loot becoming cheaper as prices will go down because of many people selling it, which will defeat the whole purpose of abusing it. Secondly, Valve can easily implement a restriction to loot drops from badges crafted for the second time - if you craft a badge you already crafted in the past or in the past X ammount of days, you recieve no loot. Another possible restriction is to make it not marketable and non-tradable for X days after you recieved it from crafting. Nothing wrong or hard with any of those implementations. Now, restricting people's choice with their purchases is wrong and anti-consumer.

Maybe. It's still a little more complex than just hiding it. And there is no option to delete a game (if you 'delete' it using 'Delete' option in the Steam Support section, you can also undelete it in the future which is nonsense), so the only way Valve could make it happen - by hiding, not deleting completely. I don't like this policy either.
Snapjak 10 May, 2019 @ 5:38am 
Hide yes, delete no.

Deleting anything that requires actual money is a terrible idea with how easily people lose their accounts.

And no, prices will not go down (much, if at all) since cards aren't infinite and require someone play the game or create a badge. The expensive cards are expensive for a reason, not enough people trying to get them.
AmsterdamHeavy 10 May, 2019 @ 5:48am 
Originally posted by Greyarchy:
Originally posted by AmsterdamHeavy:
I cant get past the "regret of crafting a badge".

Like, WHAT?

Also, willing to bet a nickle that "deleting" a badge would do nothing more than hide it from view. "Deleting", based on information from various sources will just 'hide' the bade, no stats will be impacting by this "deleting".

Maybe you should read past this part to see the detailed explanation why someone might regret it. But here's a short answer: people don't want to associate themselves with things they no longer like or approve, which includes having them and showcasing them to other people.

Yeah, I read it. It reads like it is from a 12 year old with serious self-esteem issues; thus the "what?".

Make your badges private, craft ones you want to be displayed (I assume your wall of text is referring to the 4/5 most recent.)

Problem solved.

Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 8:41am 
Originally posted by Q0906+6930:
Maybe. It's still a little more complex than just hiding it. And there is no option to delete a game (if you 'delete' it using 'Delete' option in the Steam Support section, you can also undelete it in the future which is nonsense), so the only way Valve could make it happen - by hiding, not deleting completely. I don't like this policy either.

I must admit, I haven't tried deleting any games yet, but I plan to delete a few in the future. I agree, it is nonsense to just hide them when it clearly offers you to delete a game. I hope they're at least placed under some tab in the account settings and are removed from the library with every statistic related to them. What I don't agree with is if it's the only way Valve could do this. From a technical standpoint, they could do anything, they've just chosen a safer way for themselves, disregarding what some customers want. I don't see any problem with it if it's done properly - a 30 days hold to change your mind, the action confirmation through the mobile app.
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 8:57am 
Originally posted by Snapjak:
Hide yes, delete no.

Deleting anything that requires actual money is a terrible idea with how easily people lose their accounts.

And no, prices will not go down (much, if at all) since cards aren't infinite and require someone play the game or create a badge. The expensive cards are expensive for a reason, not enough people trying to get them.

I guess you didn't read the whole post. The answer to yout counter-argument is right in the first highlighted argument debunking. There's a reason the mobile app authenticator exists where you need to confirm your actions. Plus, the deleted badges could be placed on hold for 30 days before gone forever, in case a person has a change of mind.

Following your logic, deleting an account is a terrible idea as well, yet we have that option and it's made completely safe with all neccessary security measures.

As to market fluctuations, you might be right, I didn't add the demand for different card sets to my equation. But it's irrelavant anyway, because people who want to delete badges don't care about the money they paid for them, so implementing deminishing returns and even no items at all for the badges crafted again is completely fine. A fair waning about this prior the deletion would suffice. It's unlikely many people who want to delete badges will want to craft them again.
Snapjak 10 May, 2019 @ 9:08am 
I don't have to read your post to know that the vast majority of people will not be willing to wait 30 days just to delete a badge.

If they won't do it to remove a game (which we can always do) then why would they for a badge? That's why the system as is hides it "permanently".


Also, following my logic doesn't lead anywhere to account deletion unless you're grasping. Terminating an account is a very specific action, not tossing a silly badge into the bin.
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 9:17am 
Originally posted by AmsterdamHeavy:
Originally posted by Greyarchy:

Maybe you should read past this part to see the detailed explanation why someone might regret it. But here's a short answer: people don't want to associate themselves with things they no longer like or approve, which includes having them and showcasing them to other people.

Yeah, I read it. It reads like it is from a 12 year old with serious self-esteem issues; thus the "what?".

Make your badges private, craft ones you want to be displayed (I assume your wall of text is referring to the 4/5 most recent.)

Problem solved.

You're in the Suggestions/Ideas section of discussions, your personal attacks don't belong in here. People come here to discuss what they want to be able to do with their profiles where they spend their money. I see the irony is lost upon you, but you're the one who's acting like a 12 year old, jumping to unrelated conclusions about a stranger, trying to insult him. However, I wish you well with your "serious self-esteem issues".

Your replies clearly show you either still didn't read past the part which triggered you for some bizzare reason or you have reading comprehension problems. In my post I clearly said I want to delete around 36 out of 55 badges, for good, gone forever from my profile, so even I can't see them anymore. To know the reasons, you'll need to continue reading my post. I'm not going to repeat everything to you personally, you're not that special.

Bottom line is that it's my money and I should be able to do what I please with items I spend them on. I have no problem crafting as many badges as it takes to completely refresh the recent badges area as often as I want. It's not the case. I know it confuses you that I dare to want to do as I please with things I purchased, but try to get over it.
Greyarty 10 May, 2019 @ 9:31am 
Originally posted by Snapjak:
I don't have to read your post to know that the vast majority of people will not be willing to wait 30 days just to delete a badge.

If they won't do it to remove a game (which we can always do) then why would they for a badge? That's why the system as is hides it "permanently".


Also, following my logic doesn't lead anywhere to account deletion unless you're grasping. Terminating an account is a very specific action, not tossing a silly badge into the bin.

It's not a 30 days wait to delete, it is delete and then 30 days to change your mind and undo this action. Anyway, who told you people won't be willing to wait for 30 days? You're not aware, but some people consider making a new account as the only solution to get rid of all the stuff that bothers them and they can't get rid of. Use the search and see for yourself. Having to wait for 30 days is nothing compared to having unwanted badges permanently stain your account after you crafted them on a whim and regret it.

Depending on how specifically it will be hiding it, I might agree or disagree. It will have to reduce the experience and levels as if those badges were never crafted and to hide them really good, where I won't be going much if at all.

I followed the logic of your counter-argument and successfully proved it to be wrong. Both deletions involve money. Your argument suggested that permanently deleting badges is unsafe, but permanently deleting the whole account is alright, despite both involving money spent on them. So I can delete the whole account with hell knows how much money spent on it, but I can't delete the smaller parts of the account? Great logic. Very consumer-friendly.

You don't have to read my post, but you need to if you plan on arguing it. I debunk all the popular counter-arguments there, yours included.
Last edited by Greyarty; 10 May, 2019 @ 9:37am
domosad 10 May, 2019 @ 11:23pm 
I agree with you. Few years ago I wanted high Steam level and crafted any badge, that I could. Now I dislike community badges for games, I dislike this ugly useless (for me) additions. And I want to clean my profile from it. But I can't. This option is necessary for large amount of people, I know.
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