Packaging machine - understanding the order of packaging combos?

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Phoenix

25 jul, 2019 @ 14:28

Packaging machine - understanding the order of packaging combos?

**** EDIT ****:
I've tested PM's logic in test site and found the answer.
Check my post marked as THE SOLUTION:
https://gtm.you1.cn/app/984800/discussions/0/2944710017702743127/#c2944710017705206107
Would love to hear your opinion on PM's logic.

I've met an interesting problem on "S10-Combo chaos": packaging machine that assembles combo diners from burgers+fries doesn't behave as I expect. So I'm wondering if anyone is able to describe its actual logic in certain situations, because I'm pretty confused.

I'm feeding it with fries and 3 different kind of burgers, making 3 kinds of combo. Since fries are made via 1 machine, there is a deficit of fries during peak hours, so PM tend to accumulate some burgers while waiting for the next portion of fries. Important fact: every ingredient is dispensed strictly after order arrives, and there's no expired orders yet, so there's no leftovers of anything in the whole chain.

So, that's where things started to confuse me: until now, I assumed that PM tries to package combos in order of ingredients's arrival (i.e, if Plain Burger arrives first, it will go into combo packaging at the first possibility. So, ingredients that came first can be skipped for other combo only if there's not enough components to make a combo with them). At least, that was the impression I got.

My setup for this level ocassionally starts behaving erratically. For example, PM accumulates 3 Double Bacon burgers (so, enough for 3 combos). Then arrives Plain Burger, then, finally, fries arrive. PM starts to assemble combo with Plain Burger. Another pair of burger & fries arrives, and PM still ignores Double Bacon burgers waiting, and starts to make combo with burger that came last instead. This, of course, leads to orders for combo with Double Bacon becoming expired.

Now, my new theory is that PM assembles combos in exact accordance to the list shown in its description. So, top combo in the list will always be assembled first, bottom combo will always be the last. Since this list is set by scenario, and we can't change it, if the theory is true, it might just render some "valid" kitchen plans unusable. But I can't check this theory properly.

Did anyone meet the same problem? Or, maybe, managed to accurately understand the PM logic for such situations?

Layout (PM in question is the top one):
https://gtm.you1.cn/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815175743

PM's description:
https://gtm.you1.cn/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815174517

Senast ändrad av Phoenix; 27 jul, 2019 @ 10:46

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Phoenix

25 jul, 2019 @ 14:57

Video for better understanding (00:52 is when problems start piling up):
https://youtu.be/1YloV95PbIc

swordless 25 jul, 2019 @ 15:28

First of all I would like to say I feel dumb for assuming when I have been playing each PM would only be able to do one meal like the assemblers so thanks for pointing that out to me.

As I have not used one PM for multiple meals I haven't encountered this issue but if it is leaving double burgers in favour of plain ones I am wondering if each meal has a different packing time and it is doing the shortest first?

Either way you may just want to add another fryer as that is backing up as it is slow and can only cook one at a time.

Phoenix

25 jul, 2019 @ 15:42

First, glad to be of help. BTW, let me mention that you can even use the same PM in cycle if needed (packaging fries and then returning them to the very same machine to make combos of them).

On the issue: of course, every problem is "solvable" by adding more machines. I just feel that understanding exact logic is important because, without such knowledge, we can spend plenty of time building layouts that just won't work (as I did). Unfortunately, the game doesn't explains it at this stage. But, maybe players who get to later levels, found some explanations on the topic, or the game proposes some means to resolve these issues.

Phoenix

26 jul, 2019 @ 6:25

*** THE SOLUTION ***

Indeed, If ingredients for several different combo meals present inside Packaging Machine, it will always create combo meals in exact order as they are listed in PM's properties. Thus, it doesn't pay any attention to which ingredients come first.

This leads to some combos being constantly prioritized over others, thus making otherwise would-be-good setup unable to fulfill incoming orders effectively.

The only exception found for now is Fries.
Fries have a top priority and will always be packaged first. Therefore, it's impossible to make PM package both Fries and any of the combo meals that contain Fried Potato Wedges, as PM will always make Fries as soon as any potato wedges arrive.

TEST SITE:
A simple setup, equally feeding PM with:
a) Cheeseburgers for making Altimeter Meal
b) Plain Burgers for making Dopamine Meal

Fries are feeded with some deficit to demonstrate the effect.

https://gtm.you1.cn/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815698161

PACKAGING MACHINE PROPERTIES:
As you can see, Altimeter Meal is higher in the list than Dopamine Meal. So, as soon as Cheeseburger is present in PM, it makes an Altimeter Meal without any alternative.

https://gtm.you1.cn/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815707609

You can see the effect in PM's toolip.
While Cheeseburger are swooshing through PM like there's no tomorrow, Plan Burgers accumulate and spoil instead. Dopamine Meals are, basically, never made.

If we had a scenario in which orders for Altimeter Meal & Dopamine Meal would come averagely equally, such setup might me very effective. But current logic just prevents it.

What do you think?

Did you expect PM to work that way?
Do you ever consider such kind of setups for your solutions?
Do you wish this logic reworked or to stay as it is?

Test setup in workshop:
https://gtm.you1.cn/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1815705442

Senast ändrad av Phoenix; 27 jul, 2019 @ 10:50

Spiffers

27 jul, 2019 @ 8:09

I found one further step to this that is a little more mystifying. I'm on level 11, Sounds Delicious. In this mission, the game asks for Fries, Loaded Cheese Fries, AND Bacon Fries. The order in the Packaging Machine is:
- Bacon Fries
- Fries
- Loaded Cheese Fries

I have all 3 setup to use one potato wedge source, but even when running a simulation of a single order of Loaded Cheese Fries, what happens is all of my other ingredients (Crispy Bacon, Shredded Cheese, and Fried Egg) all get to the packaging machine just fine, but even when I continually feed Fried Potato Wedges in, it constantly creates Fries.

The reason why I bring this up is because if it was purely making the top possible recipe, it would've made one order of Bacon Fries first. And even when I disable that packaging machine from making Fries, it actually does make the Loaded Cheese Fries before the Bacon Fries. This is all so arbitrary

Spiffers

27 jul, 2019 @ 8:30

And then I modified it a little so that it might actually work - then I found out that Simulation apparently works differently from the normal run? Because I separated the Fries from the other 2 (in other words, I'm using 2 packagers, 1 for regular fries, one for Loaded and Bacon). It works just fine to simulate one Loaded Cheese Fries, but as soon as I run the full level, I just end up spamming out Bacon Fries, regardless of what was ordered.

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 8:36

I can unmystify that for you

, it's exactly the described logic in action. Since Fries are higher that Loaded Cheese Fries in the list, you cannot EVER make both of them in a single machine - it will only create Fries as soon as potatoes arrive.

You can try to combine Bacon Fries & Fries in single PM. Then, if you have ALL ingredients for Bacon Fries ready in PM except potatoes, it will make Bacon Fries as soon as potatoes arrive. If any single ingredient is missing, it will immediately make Fries. So this pair is possible, but very non-reliable.

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 8:46

And for your modified layout: since the only difference between Bacon Fries & Loaded Cheese Fries is THE EGG, machine will produce Loaded Cheese Fries ONLY if the egg is present and other ingredients are there. If no egg is present, but all other stuff are there, that's a ready recipe for Bacon Fries, so it starts to make it

Scratch that. Bacon Fries is first in the list, so it will produce Bacon fries as soon as it can. Tried that as well. Ended up having 3 PM in this scenario, other ways just not work there :-).

Senast ändrad av Phoenix; 27 jul, 2019 @ 8:47

Spiffers

27 jul, 2019 @ 9:12

But you haven't addressed 2 of my concerns: The system NEVER made Bacon Fries in any situation, it always simply just pumps Fries out.

And secondly, why the heck does it run differently in simulation than in actual run?

Granted, the second one's not the largest of issues. But then again, it's sort of hard to see if you've avoided this issue if it simply ignores it in some situations and not others.

For instance, on my original design, I ended up with 4 extra packages of fries out front by the time that my Packaging Machine was full with 4 bacon, 4 grated cheese, and 2 eggs.

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 9:19

Ursprungligen skrivet av Spiffers:
But you haven't addressed 2 of my concerns: The system NEVER made Bacon Fries in any situation, it always simply just pumps Fries out.

I'm pretty sure that if all other ingredients for Bacon Fries are present , and potato is incoming, it will produce Bacon Fries instead of Fries, since Bacon Fries are on top of the list. Could you re-check that again? I, unfortunately, deleted my layout with combined PMs for this scenario.

And secondly, why the heck does it run differently in simulation than in actual run?

Maybe you right, and single order simulation somehow works differently. Frankly, I didn't pay attention to that and cannot test it again, since needed layout is deleted.

Senast ändrad av Phoenix; 27 jul, 2019 @ 9:19

#10

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 9:29

BTW, I realised that monitoring of incoming ingredients will probably also be inconsistent in its result. But at least, if they could give us an option to reorder PM's priorities, we could achieve predictable results. Will put it into QoL suggestions list :-).

#11

Spiffers

27 jul, 2019 @ 9:44

Here's a GIF of it making Fries anyways, just for posterity: https://gfycat.com/youngsilverkusimanse

#12

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 10:05

Hmm, you're right. And I managed to reproduce the same behaviour as well. Probably, I didn't exactly test this in actual scenario, relying on my test site results.

Okay, new theory on PM order is dead as well. Either we need to get some smart test invented or wait for dev's comments.

Senast ändrad av Phoenix; 27 jul, 2019 @ 10:07

#13

Phoenix

27 jul, 2019 @ 10:45

The only explanation I have is that Fries just simply has top priority in game code. Any other given pair of foods I test in test sitre, is strictly follow the theory of PM's list.

That's a weird quirk. Gonna edit my posts with explanations.

#14

Shio

2 apr, 2020 @ 8:00

I just played the same stage and got into the same quirks. I somehow assumed that it would be smart enough to make the more complicated recipe first.

Devs, can you add a crafting priority selection in the settings?

https://imgur.com/ho10zaL

Something like this.

#15

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