The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition

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Ilja 27 dec, 2019 @ 9:44
[Community] About load order and resource priorities
It will take me some time to update the pinned topic. I will bring this up here in the mean time, because it pops up on occasion in discussions.

Every now and again people rant against LOOT, telling people to sort their load orders with xEdit instead. The instruction itself is not bad, but it does not take account that people gaining this advice do not usually fully understand what load order does.

Load order
Load order sets the order for plugins (ESM, ESP and to some extent ESL). Records in these plugins win conflicts based on where they load. Files loaded last in the load order win conflicts against files above.

This is natural and understandable order, if you think that you are editing official ESM files, which are being loaded first files.

This matter is usually understood correctly. What is often missed in the conversation is the second part.

Resource and mod priorities
Records are not the only things sorted for your game. You are sorting resources as well.

Resources are your meshes, textures and especially scripts. The script part is notably important and the reason why I am writing this post.

Resources come in two forms:
- Archived (included in to BSA/BA2 archives)
- Loose files (shared and installed outside of archives, which will "physically" overwrite each other, is placed in to Data folder.)

Resource archives are being loaded according to your load order. Each of them is associated to a plugin in your load order. The order where plugins are being loaded is also the order where your resources are being loaded. This is a very important thing to realize, because mods can have various versions of scripts. Wrong version of a named script may cause a big mess in VM, because it is winning conflict against correct one, which was needed by a mod in your game.

The load order you are setting through xEdit might look correct, but it might also break your game. If you do not know why LOOT is sorting some conflicts otherwise that you would prefer, then it is very likely that reason can be found from resources.

xEdit deals with records. It does not directly deal with resources.

Bottom line
Information in LOOT takes account mod author and user information, which helps it to sort resource conflicts as well as record conflicts. It may not always look sensible from xEdit, but that does not mean it is wrong.

If you are seeing conflicts with mods having scripts in their archives, then there are three ways to handle that.
  1. Ask from mod author, or experienced community members.
  2. If script sources are present in the folder and you know how to read them, then determine if the order is correct.
  3. Hands down easiest path: just create a new empty plugin with xEdit, copy conflict record over and change values to your liking. Community can show you how.

I am not saying that xEdit wouldn't be excellent tool for modding and sorting the load order. It is.

I am underlining that people using it to sort their load orders also need to know what is in their archives, and not base the sorting merely on record conflicts visible at xEdit.
Senast ändrad av Ilja; 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:21
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Chef 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:11 
This is good advice for sure. And Subbed.
smr1957 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:16 
Subscribed. Good advice - with caveats.
Ilja 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:20 
Already fixing typos...
smr1957 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:21 
And, it's good to see you back and active in the Skyrim forums again!
Ilja 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:24 
Ursprungligen skrivet av smr1957:
And, it's good to see you back and active in the Skyrim forums again!

I am slowly building my SSE and FO4 games, while trying to survive in Pathfinder world. I have that urge to return to plains again, now that kryptopyr is back and updating her mods.

I never realized how much I relied to her work. There might be other mods doing similar things, which are worth to test out. My gaming, modding and patching styles just were tied to her work, so I didn't find my way back.
Senast ändrad av Ilja; 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:24
smr1957 27 dec, 2019 @ 10:30 
Some mods you just shudder to think of not having - and then scream at the thought that you'll have to create all that yourself if you want it!
subscribed definatly
Chaotic Harmony 27 dec, 2019 @ 11:53 
Woah; are you saying that's it's possible via load order to make a mod recieve a script from another mod that it was never intended to have?
Ilja 27 dec, 2019 @ 12:08 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Chaotic Harmony:
Woah; are you saying that's it's possible via load order to make a mod recieve a script from another mod that it was never intended to have?

Yes.

There might be several versions of the script with same name. This was - and somewhat still is - a plague at 32bit Skyrim side. The problem is lesser at SE side, because there are far less varying versions of same scripts.

But, it is still perfectly possible and actually already happens with merged utility files.

This happens, because mod authors tend to pack utility scripts to their own mods. They do not always update them for new versions. Either they do not feel that it is required for their mod, or they are just MIA from modding scene.

Let's say that you have two mods with utility script.
- First mod has old script. Author is MIA. The new script is backwards compatible with the old one, but not other way around, due to added functions.
- Second mod uses new script and it's added functions.

If both files have this script stored in to archive, then the load order determines which file will win the conflicts.
- If the first mod with old script wins the conflict, the second mod WILL NOT work, due to missing functions. If another custom script calls those functions from second mod, then Papyrus will start creating errors, which may lead to VM breaking down.
- If the second mod wins the conflict and script is backwards compatible, then all is fine.

If these two mods have record conflict that user would like to solve in favor of the first mod, then load order will also cause the old script in the first mod to win the conflict between scripts. The second mod wouldn't work correctly and Papyrus may suffer from errors.
Senast ändrad av Ilja; 27 dec, 2019 @ 12:08
Chaotic Harmony 27 dec, 2019 @ 12:10 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Ilja:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Chaotic Harmony:
Woah; are you saying that's it's possible via load order to make a mod recieve a script from another mod that it was never intended to have?

Yes.

There might be several versions of the script with same name. This was - and somewhat still is - a plague at 32bit Skyrim side. The problem is lesser at SE side, because there are far less varying versions of same scripts.

But, it is still perfectly possible.

This happens, because mod authors tend to pack utility scripts to their own mods. They do not always update them for new versions. Either they do not feel that it is required for their mod, or they are just MIA from modding scene.

Let's say that you have two mods with utility script.
- First mod has old script. Author is MIA. The new script is backwards compatible with the old one, but not other way around, due to added functions.
- Second mod uses new script and it's added functions.

If both files have this script stored in to archive, then the load order determines which file will win the conflicts.
- If the first mod with old script wins the conflict, the second mod WILL NOT work, due to missing functions. If another custom script calls those functions from second mod, then Papyrus will start creating errors, which may lead to VM breaking down.
- If the second mod wins the conflict and script is backwards compatible, then all is fine.

If these two mods have record conflict that user would like to solve in favor of the first mod, then load order will also cause the old script in the first mod to win the conflict between scripts. The second mod wouldn't work correctly and Papyrus may suffer from errors.

Thanks for such a complete answer.
smr1957 27 dec, 2019 @ 13:04 
I can testify to problem with two scrips - the mineore script. Two mods had the same script and because of that, I was unable to mine any ore. Luckily I was able to locate it as I thought that was the problem and fixed it by searching for mineore. So it can happen.Eliminated the very minor mod that was causing the issue - both were made by the same author - but one script was named differently
Senast ändrad av smr1957; 27 dec, 2019 @ 13:07
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