How do you mean? Like, a lot of it was truly great, but I've always said that everything good about this game is also in the challenge mode, and anything not in the challenges is crap.

The story DOES have better, tighter pacing than the sequels, but it's still dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

How do you mean? Like, a lot of it was truly great, but I've always said that everything good about this game is also in the challenge mode, and anything not in the challenges is crap.

The story DOES have better, tighter pacing than the sequels, but it's still dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

You are entitled to your opinion. You’re literally the only one with that mindset.

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

How do you mean? Like, a lot of it was truly great, but I've always said that everything good about this game is also in the challenge mode, and anything not in the challenges is crap.

The story DOES have better, tighter pacing than the sequels, but it's still dumb as ♥♥♥♥.

You are entitled to your opinion. You’re literally the only one with that mindset.

I'm hardly alone in this. And it's more of an "evidence-based conclusion" than a "mindset".

I mean, ok, sure, woefully stupid people can, for example, look at the best stories in, say, the Batman comics or '90s animated series, and then at the story in this game, and go like "oh, sure, equally intelligent stories, about the same", but those of us with sense know better.

Granted, "dumb as ♥♥♥♥" is in this case, a bit of an exaggeration. But not by much.

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

You are entitled to your opinion. You’re literally the only one with that mindset.

I'm hardly alone in this. And it's more of an "evidence-based conclusion" than a "mindset".

I mean, ok, sure, woefully stupid people can, for example, look at the best stories in, say, the Batman comics or '90s animated series, and then at the story in this game, and go like "oh, sure, equally intelligent stories, about the same", but those of us with sense know better.

Granted, "dumb as ♥♥♥♥" is in this case, a bit of an exaggeration. But not by much.

Don’t want to argue, but I’ve talked to hundreds and listened to thousands of people who have played this game, and you are the only one with this opinion.

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

Don’t want to argue, but I’ve talked to hundreds and listened to thousands of people who have played this game, and you are the only one with this opinion.

And I've talked to several people that have similar, if not identical, opinions to the mine. Like, of those people you've talked to, how many are actually viewing the game with a critical eye, versus the number that are just fans? How many have experience with being critical of these things, or have a wide enough breadth and a deep enough depth of knowledge to be able to know what they're talking about? Of those, several will still feel closer to how you feel, but you'll also find a lot of people among them who feel more like I do. These aren't baseless claims I'm making, they were considered, carefully thought out, and well-founded.

Only difference between my opinions and those of others who see this game's flaws more clearly than most fans is that I drew a connection they may not have, to the challenge mode.

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

Don’t want to argue, but I’ve talked to hundreds and listened to thousands of people who have played this game, and you are the only one with this opinion.

And I've talked to several people that have similar, if not identical, opinions to the mine. Like, of those people you've talked to, how many are actually viewing the game with a critical eye, versus the number that are just fans? How many have experience with being critical of these things, or have a wide enough breadth and a deep enough depth of knowledge to be able to know what they're talking about? Of those, several will still feel closer to how you feel, but you'll also find a lot of people among them who feel more like I do. These aren't baseless claims I'm making, they were considered, carefully thought out, and well-founded.

Only difference between my opinions and those of others who see this game's flaws more clearly than most fans is that I drew a connection they may not have, to the challenge mode.

Everyone I’ve spoken to plays a game and first looks at it as a fan; then they look at it as in whether they are being biased. Sure some are very biased, but maybe 20% of them. The other 80% aren’t.

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

Everyone I’ve spoken to plays a game and first looks at it as a fan; then they look at it as in whether they are being biased. Sure some are very biased, but maybe 20% of them. The other 80% aren’t.

Yeah, see, that's a great way to enjoy something, but not a great way to review it. I think I did that more with City, but with Asylum, it was still an uncertain approach of "is this new Batman game as good as some people have said, or is it another dud that's maybe just a little bit better than the other duds?". And indeed, when it came to the combat and predator challenge maps, it was basically just perfect (except for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Shock and Awe map), no notes, but when it came to the main game, certain things weren't nearly as good as they could or should have been, and even weren't as good as the previously mentioned duds.

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

Everyone I’ve spoken to plays a game and first looks at it as a fan; then they look at it as in whether they are being biased. Sure some are very biased, but maybe 20% of them. The other 80% aren’t.

Yeah, see, that's a great way to enjoy something, but not a great way to review it. I think I did that more with City, but with Asylum, it was still an uncertain approach of "is this new Batman game as good as some people have said, or is it another dud that's maybe just a little bit better than the other duds?". And indeed, when it came to the combat and predator challenge maps, it was basically just perfect (except for that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Shock and Awe map), no notes, but when it came to the main game, certain things weren't nearly as good as they could or should have been, and even weren't as good as the previously mentioned duds.

I agree with you on the 20%, but the other 80% I don’t agree with you on.

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

I agree with you on the 20%, but the other 80% I don’t agree with you on.

See, this makes me think you didn't fully understand what I said, because if you did, I get the feeling the split would be 80/20 rather than 20/80. I don't like most of the 20% of the game that isn't an aspect the story and challenge modes share. For example, they share things like voice acting, level design, stealth sections, and while the story mode has more of them, they are present in both modes, and so are found in both story and challenge mode, and so that isn't what I have a problem with. The problem I have is with things like: the sloppy, pointless, trite, low-effort, "unlamented and rarely missed relic of the silver age" plot; the unmoving, uncompelling, and bullet-points-like "point A to point B" narrative; the lazy, cliche, boring, easy, totally lacking in creativity or ingenuity or intelligence, and also very low-effort Riddler trophies (in addition to the piss-poor excuse for riddles that were really just obvious bits of trivia, and which were otherwise no different from the trophies); the bare-bones, one-note, and completely lacking in pathos characterization, as well as the half-assed, desperate, and ultimately inadequate attempts to then try to shoehorn some meager level of pathos into it, which you also have to actively search for (Bioshock and its predecessors handed them the blueprints for how to do it right, how the hell did they ♥♥♥♥ it up SO badly?); the generally middling, dumb, phoned-in, dull, and unexciting excuse for boss fights, or "encounters", as the case may be (which are my favorite part of these kinds of games, so that REALLY pissed me off); and to wrap it up, the absolute disgrace of an homage to the original story that this game initially tried to quietly convince people it was (to ride its coattails), and whose name this game ripped off while completely missing its point and being utterly antithetical to it.

Still, all of that is between, like, a fifth and a third of what this game is and what it has to offer. When it comes to the other two-thirds to four-fifths, I think it's pretty great, just like everyone else. It's only some aspects that are issues, and later games tried to fix them.

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

I agree with you on the 20%, but the other 80% I don’t agree with you on.

See, this makes me think you didn't fully understand what I said, because if you did, I get the feeling the split would be 80/20 rather than 20/80. I don't like most of the 20% of the game that isn't an aspect the story and challenge modes share. For example, they share things like voice acting, level design, stealth sections, and while the story mode has more of them, they are present in both modes, and so are found in both story and challenge mode, and so that isn't what I have a problem with. The problem I have is with things like: the sloppy, pointless, trite, low-effort, "unlamented and rarely missed relic of the silver age" plot; the unmoving, uncompelling, and bullet-points-like "point A to point B" narrative; the lazy, cliche, boring, easy, totally lacking in creativity or ingenuity or intelligence, and also very low-effort Riddler trophies (in addition to the piss-poor excuse for riddles that were really just obvious bits of trivia, and which were otherwise no different from the trophies); the bare-bones, one-note, and completely lacking in pathos characterization, as well as the half-assed, desperate, and ultimately inadequate attempts to then try to shoehorn some meager level of pathos into it, which you also have to actively search for (Bioshock and its predecessors handed them the blueprints for how to do it right, how the hell did they ♥♥♥♥ it up SO badly?); the generally middling, dumb, phoned-in, dull, and unexciting excuse for boss fights, or "encounters", as the case may be (which are my favorite part of these kinds of games, so that REALLY pissed me off); and to wrap it up, the absolute disgrace of an homage to the original story that this game initially tried to quietly convince people it was (to ride its coattails), and whose name this game ripped off while completely missing its point and being utterly antithetical to it.

Still, all of that is between, like, a fifth and a third of what this game is and what it has to offer. When it comes to the other two-thirds to four-fifths, I think it's pretty great, just like everyone else. It's only some aspects that are issues, and later games tried to fix them.

I couldn’t get my brain to focus on your full message so I kinda just skimmed over it (I’m sick) but the 20% and 80% isn’t the game, it’s the community.

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

I couldn’t get my brain to focus on your full message so I kinda just skimmed over it (I’m sick) but the 20% and 80% isn’t the game, it’s the community.

What? Uh, that doesn't seem to make sense, at least in the context of how you last used it.

So, uh, yeah, maybe you should focus on resting and getting well. Feel better soon!

Първоначално публикувано от LHGreen:

Първоначално публикувано от TheAlmightySunBro, Silkaire:

I couldn’t get my brain to focus on your full message so I kinda just skimmed over it (I’m sick) but the 20% and 80% isn’t the game, it’s the community.

What? Uh, that doesn't seem to make sense, at least in the context of how you last used it.

So, uh, yeah, maybe you should focus on resting and getting well. Feel better soon!:cozyspaceengineersc::happystar2022:

I’ll return and reread this conversation when I’m 100%. Appreciate it.

Am i interrupting if i comment?

Officer Balls!

Първоначално публикувано от Jimelu:

Officer Balls!

Is he stupid?