I've seen worse but they are quite ugly, for sure; noticeably so.
I really don't like what they did with the qunari designs in general either.

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

To be fair to her, the kind of world that she grew up in was cold, raw, and unforgiving, and the experiences she had most likely made her empathetic to it.
Naughty Dog *does* know how to write, the second game just happened to have some rather unfortunately poor writing, which includes Abby.

Originally posted by あらた:

To be fair, she accurately portrays the delusional, insufferable, self-obsessed streamer that desperately needs mental health treatment. I think it was a wonderfully realistic characterisation.

I just wish you could be honest with her and try to help her instead of making her illness worse by going along with the idiocy. That's half the problem isn't it? No player agency where there was some previously.

Almost like the dragon age series has suffered from the same issues.
Funny, that.

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

This isn't even the right forum for it, but I'm honestly fascinated by this Abby comment. Abby's friends and father were murdered by Joel. You can argue self defense with the military personnel, but that doctor and Marlene were killed in cold blood. She gets her revenge years later. She does not kill Tommy or Ellie since they were not responsible. That is actually a surprising amount of restraint in the hell of a world they live in. Did you feel Ellie was justified in her hunt for Abby? If so, why is it different?

I would say the writing crapped out in the first Last of Us when they wouldn't let Joel see Ellie. Ellie would have chosen death and Joel would have had no choice but to accept it. Anyone who knew Ellie at all, which Marlene who had been monitoring her for years should have, would have known the choice she would make. Instead the game tried to claim that Marlene wouldn't have the heart to kill her if she didn't do it immediately and was largely why she rushed it. An absurd plot point. It's a very artificially created but powerful end. Still a great game, but that scene was silly.

Abby's eye for an eye felt very human in comparison.

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

Oh thank god you didn't mention the sex scene tho, still recovering from seeing tha- *blank stare*

Originally posted by Horrible Marksman:

I do agree with that.
I think if Abby was at least written somewhat better, and (this is just a guess) was written less controversially, then the game would've been much better received.
But then again, they did force you to play as a character that mogged a lot of people's favorite character in the series, so that controversy would still be there.

That character is the most blatant and brazen self insert I have seen in a long time.

Originally posted by Cocofang:

That character is the most blatant and brazen self insert I have seen in a long time.

-"I'm non-binary."
"What does that mean?"
-"I'm not man, nor woman."
"Then what are you?"
-"Ghoooood, mooom, why do you hate me and can't respect me, I hate you."

I hope it's not a self-insert, that would make it awkward, especially that scene.

Reminds me of the powerpuff girls writer and his self insert.

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

I see nothing wrong with this. That's her character. That's how she's written and supposed to be.

Originally posted by Shad:

Reminds me of the powerpuff girls writer and his self insert.

Knowing writers, I'd say most self-insert to some degree. It's almost impossible not to.

Originally posted by Mr. Bunce:

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Abby from The Last of Us 2 is worse. She never feels any remorse or shame for killing an unarmed old man in cold blood. Normal people would at least feel bad, she doesn't. And you're forced to play her half of the game.

I see nothing wrong with this. That's her character. That's how she's written and supposed to be.

It's called being a sociopath. Normal people feel remorse after getting revenge.

Originally posted by pauloaom:

Originally posted by Mr. Bunce:

I see nothing wrong with this. That's her character. That's how she's written and supposed to be.

It's called being a sociopath. Normal people feel remorse after getting revenge.

She’s not a normal person in a not normal time. It’s fiction.

Originally posted by Mr. Bunce:

She’s not a normal person in a not normal time. It’s fiction.

Okay, just doing a quick consistency- and sincerity-check.

Say there was a fictional story that plays out in a world very similar to real life where the protagonist is openly racist, sexist, xenophobic, violent, hateful and fascist yet every time they and their values get tested, they are proven right and their viewpoint as universally correct.

Your position on this hypothetical work of fiction would be: "I see nothing wrong with this. That's their character. That's how they are written and supposed to be. They're not a normal person in a not normal time. It's fiction.", and you'd be just as fine with that as with anything else fictitious.

Correct?

Fair position to have, freedom of art and all, just probing if the standard is applied equally.