Originally posted by MACIOREX:

REMEMBER: Gameplay + Content > ENGINE

We dont want another unreal based empty and souless game, we want whole tamriel in Creation Engine 2 - lots of quests, lots of radiant generated content together with hand crafted one, huuuuuge dungeons, huuuuge areas - do it Bethesda! We dont want more fancy looking empty games - we want like it was in Skyrim - immersion huge RPG - Creation Engine 2 is fine! All you need is Gameplay + Content.

Do not listen to this clowns that want another nice ,empty, souless game - offering boring gameplay.... Creation Engine 2 is fine! Loading screens are fine!

You are very confused about the game engine young man. Either way, your campaign is not needed. ES6 is going to be 100% on the creation engine. Anyone saying otherwise is wrong.

Originally posted by MACIOREX:

REMEMBER: Gameplay + Content > ENGINE

I dont want another unreal based empty and souless game, I want whole tamriel in Creation Engine 2 - lots of quests, lots of radiant generated content together with hand crafted one, huuuuuge dungeons, huuuuge areas - do it Bethesda! I dont want more fancy looking empty games - I want like it was in Skyrim - immersion huge RPG - Creation Engine 2 is fine! All you need is Gameplay + Content.

Do not listen to this clowns that want another nice ,empty, souless game - offering boring gameplay.... Creation Engine 2 is fine! Loading screens are fine!

"I" fixed it for you. You don't speak for me.

you mean not like the disappointed starfield reviewers on steam post currently?

like:
https://gtm.you1.cn/profiles/76561198012913278/recommended/1716740/

https://gtm.you1.cn/id/airdj/recommended/1716740/

https://gtm.you1.cn/profiles/76561198071927087/recommended/1716740/

and so on...

Bugs from 2002 (it's first use with Morrowind) are also just fine. I mean why not, they've been present in other games since, and the community took time to fix them there too.

I guess we'll still have to deal with it's limitations - you can't mod those out with duct tape and paint.

tldr; Expect more drama with TES6 than you can shake a stick at.

Originally posted by Jᴧgᴧ:

Bugs from 2002 (it's first use with Morrowind) are also just fine. I mean why not, they've been present in other games since, and the community took time to fix them there too.

I guess we'll still have to deal with it's limitations - you can't mod those out with duct tape and paint.

tldr; Expect more drama with TES6 than you can shake a stick at.

Will still need a community patch.

Oh, I have no doubt about that Seekrt. Every RPG from Bethesda is released bug-ridden and feature-incomplete. Even Morrowind had mods years after the fact, and it is perhaps their best work (for it's time).

Bethesda isn't moving to Unreal. I really don't know why people buy that rumor. The whole reason they still use Creation Engine is because it's tailor-made to fit the style of games Bethesda makes. Not only this, but it's also what the team is familiar with, and Bethesda's team is an anomaly in that they generally keep the same talent for a decade or longer.

That said, I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, Creation Engine has plenty of flaws they still haven't fixed across several games (some of which existed back when it was still Gamebryo) and its performance isn't fantastic. Plus, Bethesda having to work on the engine before each game starts development is a massive part of what makes Bethesda games take forever to come out. The latter reason is probably a big part of why CDPR chose to move to Unreal: they have the option to customize the engine through their good relations with Epic, but they aren't required to maintain the engine meaning they're free to just make games.

So basically, if Bethesda can't make Bethesda-style games without Creation Engine, I want them to stick with Creation Engine. Otherwise, I'd be open to the possibility of using Unreal. However, my ideal setup for Bethesda's team would be like this:

- Separate engine team, completely unrelated to the main development teams, who is constantly working on developing and tweaking Creation Engine ahead of time

- Bethesda's main team makes the core game and early patches for the game

- When a game is out and patched, a separate Bethesda studio takes over development of post-launch content while the main team moves on to their next game

If they don't do something like that, absolutely none of us will ever live to see more than probably two more games in each of their franchises, which is absolutely unacceptable.

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

- Separate engine team, completely unrelated to the main development teams, who is constantly working on developing and tweaking Creation Engine ahead of time

I don't think Bethesda/Zenimax/MS would ever approve the amount of capital that would entail. It would eat into their immediate profits far too much, despite future-proofing the game for another decade+.

Bethesda's fully migrated to "developing for casuals", who don't really care much about the limitations more hardcore gamers (and long-time fans) see now in the engine.

It's unfortunate, as I too would like to see a core team working 100% on the engine year after year (much like CryEngine received after Crysis). But I don't think it's a reality we'll ever see. They could have gotten away with it if they had started doing that after Oblivion, but the engine (such as it is) is too far gone now, and would probably need a total re-write with more extensibility built-in.

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

Bethesda isn't moving to Unreal. I really don't know why people buy that rumor. The whole reason they still use Creation Engine is because it's tailor-made to fit the style of games Bethesda makes. Not only this, but it's also what the team is familiar with, and Bethesda's team is an anomaly in that they generally keep the same talent for a decade or longer.

That said, I'm torn on this issue. On one hand, Creation Engine has plenty of flaws they still haven't fixed across several games (some of which existed back when it was still Gamebryo) and its performance isn't fantastic. Plus, Bethesda having to work on the engine before each game starts development is a massive part of what makes Bethesda games take forever to come out. The latter reason is probably a big part of why CDPR chose to move to Unreal: they have the option to customize the engine through their good relations with Epic, but they aren't required to maintain the engine meaning they're free to just make games.

So basically, if Bethesda can't make Bethesda-style games without Creation Engine, I want them to stick with Creation Engine. Otherwise, I'd be open to the possibility of using Unreal. However, my ideal setup for Bethesda's team would be like this:

- Separate engine team, completely unrelated to the main development teams, who is constantly working on developing and tweaking Creation Engine ahead of time

- Bethesda's main team makes the core game and early patches for the game

- When a game is out and patched, a separate Bethesda studio takes over development of post-launch content while the main team moves on to their next game

If they don't do something like that, absolutely none of us will ever live to see more than probably two more games in each of their franchises, which is absolutely unacceptable.

The Unreal engine is said to be unfriendly to modding. That's what I heard anyway. But seriously, if a game is really well made, has appropriate ui and graphics quality, why would I even care about modding my game.
As it stands, you have to mod the game to better the graphics, to better the interface, to fix the basic bugs that remain from the original engine that they never cared to fix.

It is so stupid, they could have just used the community patch to fix it. How lazy can you get?

Originally posted by Jᴧgᴧ:

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

- Separate engine team, completely unrelated to the main development teams, who is constantly working on developing and tweaking Creation Engine ahead of time

I don't think Bethesda/Zenimax/MS would ever approve the amount of capital that would entail. It would eat into their immediate profits far too much, despite future-proofing the game for another decade+.

Bethesda's fully migrated to "developing for casuals", who don't really care much about the limitations more hardcore gamers (and long-time fans) see now in the engine.

It's unfortunate, as I too would like to see a core team working 100% on the engine year after year (much like CryEngine received after Crysis). But I don't think it's a reality we'll ever see. They could have gotten away with it if they had started doing that after Oblivion, but the engine (such as it is) is too far gone now, and would probably need a total re-write with more extensibility built-in.

Exactly.

Originally posted by Seekrt:

The Unreal engine is said to be unfriendly to modding. That's what I heard anyway. But seriously, if a game is really well made, has appropriate ui and graphics quality, why would I even care about modding my game.
As it stands, you have to mod the game to better the graphics, to better the interface, to fix the basic bugs that remain from the original engine that they never cared to fix.

It is so stupid, they could have just used the community patch to fix it. How lazy can you get?

Wouldn't surprise me, given Epic's overall attitude toward, well... everything.

The problem is that Bethesda's games are designed to be worlds just as much as they're games. Freedom is the number one goal, and modding is a huge part of that. Personally, I've never felt like ANY of their games need mods to be played, outside of unofficial patches and other technical fixes, but the fact that I have the option to change the game to be whatever I want it to be is a huge part of what makes their games so fun and so successful.

Originally posted by Jᴧgᴧ:

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

- Separate engine team, completely unrelated to the main development teams, who is constantly working on developing and tweaking Creation Engine ahead of time

I don't think Bethesda/Zenimax/MS would ever approve the amount of capital that would entail. It would eat into their immediate profits far too much, despite future-proofing the game for another decade+.

Bethesda's fully migrated to "developing for casuals", who don't really care much about the limitations more hardcore gamers (and long-time fans) see now in the engine.

It's unfortunate, as I too would like to see a core team working 100% on the engine year after year (much like CryEngine received after Crysis). But I don't think it's a reality we'll ever see. They could have gotten away with it if they had started doing that after Oblivion, but the engine (such as it is) is too far gone now, and would probably need a total re-write with more extensibility built-in.

Possible, but it'd honestly be more effective for their finances in the long run. More frequent game releases alone would be enough to cover the cost of that. I just don't really get Bethesda's philosophy overall: they get bought out by Microtrash, one of the worst companies in history, and say it's a good thing... yet the only changes to their operation have been negative. Makes no sense.

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

Originally posted by Seekrt:

The Unreal engine is said to be unfriendly to modding. That's what I heard anyway. But seriously, if a game is really well made, has appropriate ui and graphics quality, why would I even care about modding my game.
As it stands, you have to mod the game to better the graphics, to better the interface, to fix the basic bugs that remain from the original engine that they never cared to fix.

It is so stupid, they could have just used the community patch to fix it. How lazy can you get?

Wouldn't surprise me, given Epic's overall attitude toward, well... everything.

The problem is that Bethesda's games are designed to be worlds just as much as they're games. Freedom is the number one goal, and modding is a huge part of that. Personally, I've never felt like ANY of their games need mods to be played, outside of unofficial patches and other technical fixes, but the fact that I have the option to change the game to be whatever I want it to be is a huge part of what makes their games so fun and so successful.

I understand that. Personally, the mods I used were mainly to fix the underpar graphics.
To be sincere though I did add some magic mods as well as some fixes to several main characters' profiles. But to be honest, if the game looked good from the get go and that the ui and characters' profiles had been satisfactorily done (to me obviously) I would not even have thought of modding the game.

They can't hold on to this engine forever unless they rewrite it. Otherwise it will come back to bite them in the assssssssss.

Originally posted by Jakob Fel:

Possible, but it'd honestly be more effective for their finances in the long run. More frequent game releases alone would be enough to cover the cost of that. I just don't really get Bethesda's philosophy overall: they get bought out by Microtrash, one of the worst companies in history, and say it's a good thing... yet the only changes to their operation have been negative. Makes no sense.

What it feels like to me, is that ever since MS acquired them, they're trying to squeeze money. Small time/resource investment, outsource work for reduced costs, maximum profit through marketing and after-purchase products. The price of the base game was one. The Creation Club and the price of the single quest being high was another. The price of the DLC (half a AAA title's price) was a third. And of course the aforementioned outsourcing.

Doesn't it feel like someone trying to squeeze an onion so hard they get it to bleed?

I don't think Bethesda/Zenimax (even before MS) thought seriously about re-investing in themselves, specifically their own engine. It's a necessary evil to producing their games, and they appear to only update it when, and as far as needed for each new game.

From a "running a business well into the foreseeable future" you're right - it makes no sense. But they may still just be a bunch of yesterday's gamers trying to run a company, not truly competent project management and visionaries. Good companies always look forward and re-invest in themselves.

It has me scratching my head too.